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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  August 4, 2017 3:00am-6:00am PDT

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"morning joe" starts right now. >> the russia story is a total fabrication. it's just an excuse for the greatest loss in the history of american politics. that's all it is. >> i'm kind of curious. i did not know and maybe gene robinson, you can help me out here because you and i were the only ones alive in 1936, but i didn't know that the good people of west virginia knew that much about f.d.r.'s land slide over al flandin, the greatest loss in political history. >> they teach that i think the first week in -- >> public schools. >> civics class or something. >> some would say f.d.r. in '64. >> and it was a neat trick, the popular vote. and it was the greatest.
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>> and the lowest electoral vote -- >> and the grievance never ends. >> last night the grievance was the point, the whole point. they're doing this to you, they are trying to steal the way. >> this can be like the equivalent for the 2030s of like dead heads, right? because they're playing the hits, right, but they're from last year. they're doing lock her up. it's going to be like 2032 and trump is going to be like 110 and they'll be like in their
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tye-dyes. lock her up, put them together, dude. >> good morning, everyone. we'll explain all of this. it friday, august 4th. >> no, we won't be able to explain what we just did. >> oh, my god. what a long week. >> thank god there's never anything to talk about on saturdays. >> ooh, what is saturday going to bring? that's what i want to know because this has been one hell of a week. >> do you know what you called last friday? failure friday. so what do we call this one? grand jury friday? >> i think felony friday. we have a winner at 6:02. thank you so much. have a great weekend. >> with us is eugene robinson. donnie deutsche is here, msnbc contributor clint watts and
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senior politics reporter at "usa today" heidi pryzbyla. >> kind of big news. >> new developments and reaction this morning in the investigation into russia, the 2016 election and president trump. "the wall street journal" reports special counsel robert mueller has empanelled a grand jury in washington to investigate russia 's interference in the 2016 elections. "the washington post" reported mueller began using the grand jury in d.c. several weeks ago. "the new york times" reports that mueller has issued subpoenas from the washington-based grand jury according to several lawyers involved in the case, at least some related to former national security adviser michael flynn. nbc news reported in may into grand juries before mueller was appointed. federal prosecutors had been using at least one other grand jury located in alexandria,
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virginia. a former intelligence official with knowledge of the discussions has told nbc news is looking at whether the president may have obstructed justice. a grand jury is usually used for complex investigation, not only for investigation but also for obtaining records. he added that mr. comey told the president at least three times that he's not under investigation and we heard nothing that would chang that. the only concern at the white house is that this be done fast and fairly. >> if you take the lawyers for the president that people are actually representing him and not just those that are playing lawyers on tv, they've been disciplined for the most part,
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kept their heads down, they've been respectful of the process and of robert mueller. even yesterday they were respectful of robert mueller while these tv attorneys that probably go before judge judy and judge wapner go up there and embarrass themselves. it means so many times when we live in the lazy hazy days of the mooch era, people will say, well, you can't obstruct justice because there's not really an investigation yet and are's n not -- there's not really a grand jury empanelled. well there, is a grand jury empanelled. two guys from the carolinas going -- now that there is a
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grand jury empanelled, firing him is simply untenable. >> and it's about a lot more than michael flynn. as "the wall street journal" reports, we already knew about a grand jury in virginia looking into michael flynn and paul manafort. this is a separate one meaning this is a much bigger, longer term investigation about anything other than michael flynn. >> and also talking about past financial crimes. >> let's bring in "the wall street journal" reporter that broke the story, del, if you could talk about having a separaaccepgrand jury separate and apart from the one in alexandria, virginia, what's the significance there? >> we already knew the northern
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virginia grand jury, about ten clogged traffic miles from d.c., they're going to be working with a federal grand jury closer to his office in d.c. which is much more convenient but, b, if you were were only looking at manafort, you'd be reinventing the wheel. this shows the investigation has broadened. >> to be clear for people listening, the significance broadly of having a grand jury, my wla might it be doing right now and what can it do eventually? >> it's a powerful fool for prosecutors. a, he'll ask a federal judge to start a grand jury or one has been started and robert mueller will go to the grand jury and say, hey, i'm investigating this, this, and this, i need your authority to permit me to issue subpoenas, gather information, bring some witnesses to you, compel testimony. by issuing those subpoenas,
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people have to comply or get hauled before a court. and it locks people into their testimony. if it's near his offices, it's muchies easier to work with a witness in a secure facility and then you hustle them over before the grand jury and lock in their testimony. >> you look at the last grand jury empanelled for a president and you look at bill clinton. and there are a lot of people that knew that bill clinton committed perjury in his deposition that said, okay, he was surprised, it was a deposition, we're not going to vote to impeach him for committing perjury in a deposition. once you go in front of a gir, you lie in front of a grand jury, at least where i'm from, you go to jail. you're in a penitentiary in atlanta, georgia for a time. for people at home to understand, this isn't just some little procedural trick, the stakes have been raised.
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you lie in front of a grand jury, you're a felon and you're going to jail. and if you're a president, you're going to get impeached. >> and the fbi can ask you to come in for an interview and of course if you lie, that's committing a crime. the grand jury can compel you to come in under oath without your lawyer and answer questions and you better answer them truthfully. >> it's a whole different ball game. del, this is gene robinson, great story. >> thank you. >> what do you know about potential subpoenas that might have been issued for testimony or documents? >> other news organizations including the post, the times and reuters have reported that they'vish ufrd subpoenas to various people involved in this investigation. they're looking at possible crimes ranging from obstruction of justice to the underlying facts of michael flynn and his
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work for foreign business interests. the point of the grand jury process is that it's -- mully it taken over the counterintelligence investigation. if you're doing a counterintelligence investigation, it's very secretive. grand juries are also secret but it's a level of public disclosure that can come with it. for example, witnesses can leave the grand jury and tell you everything they said. you get a subpoena, you can put it online. there's nothing preventing that. there's more of a risk of thanksgiving becoming public. it's entering a public phase. >> and the grand jurors themselves are not able to talk about anything that happens in the testimony room. but people who testify are. this is a new grand jury
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empanelled, is that right? >> we were told he went and got his own grand jury. if you're working on a complicated and it's a really complex manner and you don't want grand juror' minds getting clogged up with 150 other cases. being under grand jury investigation, it doesn't mean there are going to be indictments, it's secretive for a reason to protect the innocent. it's not a public flogging. it's an interesting step, it's an important state police about and we should be viewing this as indictments coming down the road. >> chip: "the wall street journal" thank you for your reporting. >> clint, what do you think? what's the impact? >> location matters more than
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convenience. usually when you see the crime where it owe kurks this could be signaling whatever they're looking at has a nexus in d.c., not in new york. and you want to bring in for testimony and for record things that you want to lock down early. so financial records. a smart person on defense will good lawyers is not going to cough anything up unless they're commanded to under threat of going to jail. same thing as as if you've got cooperating witnesses or people on the periphery o have made public statements and lock them into their testimony because that can then box in other people. so the sooner you get them in, there the more strategic you can angle. >> i think just as big was the day before whose specialty is you know, the clinton investigation started out with
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whitewater and ended up with finance. this is about money. it's very simple. once the subpoena witnesses and documents, once those financial documents start coming in about the last 20 years of doing business with russia, it is because it's over. once you start peeling those pieces of paper back, you're talking about the sleaziest businessman doing business with russian oligarchs, he. >> anothers we of that they consider themselves into potential witnesses over the
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clinton vgs. anybody that knew about the coachy member kos and had a discussion with comey is going to probably ultimately have to come in and be talked to. it's going to be a very interesting dynamic because you're also talking about a mueller team that knows many of these people. they object all worked together at the fbi it will be an interesting way to see how those conversations were characterized and what comey said when he went back to the office. >> we want to get heidi in on the politics of it. here's more of president trump speaking out at his campaign rally in west virginia. >> the reason why democrats only talk about the totally made up russia story is because they have no message, no agenda and no vision. the russia story is a total
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fabrication. it's just an excuse for the greatest loss in the history of american politics. that's all it is. try winning at the voter booth. what the prosecutors should be looking at are hillary clinton's 33,000 deleted e-mail. have you seen any russians in west virginia or ohio or pennsylvania? are there any russians here tonight? any russians? they can't beat us at the voting booths so they're trying to cheat you out of the future and the future that you want. they're trying to cheat you out of the leadership you want with a fake story that is demeaning
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to all of us and most importantly, demeaning to our country and demeaning to our constitution. >> if you've got the law on your side, argue the law, right? if you got the facts on your side, argue the facts. if you got neither on your side, argue. and that's what he's doing. i mean, there's nothing there. are there russians in west virginia? i don't think so. but hold on. >> sorry, joe. >> there are russians. donnie, in florida, there are russians in palm beach that pay $30 million, $40 million more for a trump house than they should have. there are russians that come to the trump office that say we're connected with the russian office and we have information. >> and russians are laundering
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money out of russia and there are 13 white faces. you know you've been in politics for a long time if there are very orchestrated faces behind you. there were 13 white faces. >> heidi, you also are looking at the 33%, not the 1%, you're look at the 33%. the latest quinnipiac poll has donald trump sitting at 33%. i don't want to anger my democratic friends because i have so many of my democratic friends but there is a time that democrats back in 2006 could have gotten 33% of the people, democrats, to go out and say that george w. bush was behind september 11th. i think the numbers were actually higher than that. they were going into the 40s. so what people need to understand when they see this, i mean, this is steve bannon's 33%. and that's all they've been playing for. so, yes, you can get a crowd of the 33%.
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they're going to be more fired up because they feel more isolated from the other 67%. >> take that 33% and overlay a map of the states. if you look at state approval state by state. where is trump at about 60% in west virginia and out in the mountain west. if you want to distill that, those 33% are disproportionately concentrated in states like west virginia. he went to his people. this is in part a feel good kind of moment for him to kind of go back to his base but also to send a message to us here, the elites in washington and on the east on the coast that hey, i still have this loyal army of followers. i think what's remarkable is he's coming back to these people hat in hand giving the same kind of red meat campaign speech not
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100 days into his presidency but 200 days into his presidency with essentially nothing to show them on his make america great again agenda other than what he's done by executive order and with his pen. none of the things like infrastructure, the big kind of bring back jobs to the forgotten man agenda has been snaenacted it's nowhere in sight and yet these people still love him. >> and those who are increasingly stepping away from him, if you are look at their willingness to go back in on the health care question and now someone like thom tillis, republican senator from north carolina to shield bob mueller to shield him from the president
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of the united states. >> you see this branch of government reasserting itself, and mccain as speech where he talked about congress as no subordinate to but a co-equal of the executive branch was a good summary of everything happening on capitol hill, including the russia sanctions pushing back on trump, even mcconnell brushing him off at, no, we're not going to look at redoing the filibuster. you see more and more republicans feeling comfortable like jeff flake pushing back on this administration and you'll see more of that as we get closer to the election season and it becomes clear republicans are not going to be able to use trump no matter how flawed and imperfect a character they see him as and start to see him more as a political liability in their states. if you look state by state, places like arizona ain't very popular. >> mika, heidi brought it up,
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this is a week that people will look back on at least for in the republican congress a shift, which actually started last friday over the past seven days, john mccain voting no, giving that impassioned speech. our powers are given to us by the constitution, not by the president. jeff flake writing a vicious, accurate attack on what the conservative movement has done in compromising itself over the past year. and, by the way, flake doing it facing a primary coming up. so it was a risk. you look at what thom tillis is doing from north carolina, what lindsey graham is talking about in protecting the constitution, the rule of law, the investigations, by what they're talking about doing to protect bob mueller's ability to find out what the truth is and to protect and shield the law against the politics of the president and then of course the
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russia sanctions, which vladimir putin doesn't understand but those who know the constitution do. >> and really adding to the fact that he's every day sort of layer after layer shows you can't unfortunately believe what he says, he even attacks congress for his own sanctions bill, which is unbelievably self-d self-destructi self-destructive, made fun of president obama for taking a lot of vacation, is leaving for a 17-day vacation. >> he attacked president obama for golfing. he's done so much more. >> 17 weekends of golfing. >> just saying that some are even reporting that they're concerned. >> some would. >> this morning top justice defendant officials will hold a briefing on leaks of classified material and its threat to national security. that comes after one of the most
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significant leaks we've seen so far during this presidency. transcripts of his calls with two foreign leaders, what those transcripts reveal about the president and why many are calling the leak unprecedented and dangerous. one of "the washington post" reporters who on it and and published those revealing transcripts joins us next. garfunkel (instrumental) [ snoring ] [ deep sleep snoring ] the all-new volkswagen atlas. seats seven, sleeps six. life's as big as you make it.
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what's going to happen. >> the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee is sounding off on government leaks based on this next story. "the washington post" has on it and and printed the transcripts of president trump's phone calls with australian prime minister malcolm turnbull and mexican president enrique pena nieto. president trump pushed his promise of a border wall saying it put both man in a, quote, political bind, he urged him to drop his public resistance and instead say that the two leaders will, quote, work it out. he added if you're going to say mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then i do not want to meet with you guys anymore because i cannot live with that.
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the president also said this is the least important thing to talk about but politically it might be the most important thing to talk about. and you might recall that president trump said that his call with the australian prime minister was fake news and that the media lied. he said "i've had it, i've been making calls all day, this was the most unpleasant call all day, putin was a pleasant call." >> i don't understand. the president was undermining the truth ands that kind of sort of his thing that he does, which is to undermine the truth. >> when he was referring to the wall, he said this is really not
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an important this evening but politically it's the most important thing because he knows exactly. >> he's not building a wall. before we go to a reporter, very interesting yesterday, you had people like john fedorwiz, saying i love this like eating a sundae but it should never happen. i heard this from the obama people who said this is outrageous, i can't imagine, i'd be going crazy. >> first six months as president. >> i would be going crazy if somebody were lacking transcripts of president obama's calls with foreign leaders, how dangerous is that? >> david axelrod said the same thing. >> you're going to have bipartisan calls for -- it's
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going to come down to they're worried other leaks could undermine the mueller investigation. if you lookin side the white house, kelley has moved in, mcmaster has talked about this, the leaks inside the white house. there has to be a lock down because it affects foreign policy. part of it is prompted by two things, the chaos in siside the white house but when trump goes out publicly and bashes the intelligence community and the law enforcement community, that incites this. >> and when he lies about conversations about what happens, somebody inside the government may say, wait a second, that's not what happened at all, he is lying to 300 million american people and also to the world and there are -- you know, the more he lies about what's going on, the more whistleblowers are going to feel the need, gene. >> that's exactly right. there are ways to issue
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statements about conversations like that that are not lies, but that aren't flat-out lies. and he just told flat-out lies about what was said or not said. >> you have to wonder. >> in all my years in journalism, i don't think i've ever seen this. i don't think i've seen private conversations by the president and other world leaders leaked in their fullness. >> and, willie, we conservatives and i put myself at the top of theless, i w lesist, i was enra printed the location of black sites from across europe from allies that had made a really tough political decision to help the united states in what we call the war against terror. i thought that was so reckless.
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who is going to help us now in the future? this takes it to an even higher level, where now if you're a foreign leader, you can't even call the white house without being afraid that every word you say is going to spill out in the front pages of the paper in your home country. >> well, the transcripts don't make donald trump look good but they also don't make the presidents of mexico and the prime minister of australia look great either. they're talking about i have to say this publicly because this is happening behind the scenes. if the foreign leader doesn't have the confidence of what he's discussing with the president of the united states, they're just not going to talk to the president of the united states because it hurts them at home. let's go right to the reporter who broke the story, who got some of the transcripts of president trump's phone calls, national security correspondent for "the washington post" greg miller. greg, good morning. always good to talk to you. i suspect you're not going to reveal your sources to us on national television but can you
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share a little bit about how these transcripts fell into your hands? >> yeah, not so much. >> donald trump called you and said i got some transcripts. >> stranger things have happened. >> i think gene is right and you guys are all right that this is extraordinary and we recognize that when we obtained these transcripts. this isn't the kind of thing we're accustomed to seeing. but these are extraordinary conversations that a president of the united states is having. these are conversations in which he's referring to one of the states he governs, new hampshire, as a drug-infested den and that is why he won that state, subjecting a very, very close ally, a country that has fought alongside the united states for a century in every conflict to a stream of
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invective abuse really. so these are extraordinary conversations. i don't know what would have happened if a prior president had treated an ally or a leader of a close neighbor this way. perhaps we would have seen transcripts like that in those cases. >> question about your source. were you surprised to get these transcripts? how hard was it to get these transcripts? are you concerned that you're being played? >> i'll answer the last question. of course we're mindful of that. we're very mindful of the environment right now in washington, the hostility towards news organizations like ours. i mean, the president himself has described journalism as an enemy of the people, and so of course we are very mindful of the risks out there and take extraordinary precautions and do a lot of checking and evaluation of any material we get.
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this is an unusual moment in our country's history, an unusual moment in journalism. >> it's so unusual that you have to wonder. >> we'll talk about that. let's get greg off and then we can speculate. do you want to speculate if donald trump overover there and handed it to him. i didn't hear anybody criticize "the washington post" yesterday for making this decision, these would have gotten out anyway. that being said, i'm sure you all felt a heavy burden in making the decision to release it. can you just explain for our viewers the process that you and your editors went through before deciding to release these extraordinary documents? >> well, sure. i can tell you that we absolutely went to the white house before publishing any of this material. we told them what our intention was, we told them what we
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thought was significant in these transcripts and what we intended to emphasize in our coverage. and we have some comment in the story from officials familiar with these conversations defending the president's handling of these calls. there was no request, there was no request at any point in these discussions for us to withhold any of this information. and i should emphasize that that happens from time to time. clinton will know. we have these conversations frequently with the u.s. government about programs -- covert programs and things like that. the government doesn't always prevail when it comes to our news organizations and others -- >> but you're saying the government didn't even ask you to withhold these? >> didn't even ask. >> in my time at the "washington post," i can think of probably if i sat here for a while dozens of instances where we came
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across sensitive information, went to u.s. officials beforehand and had a discussion about what could be public, what couldn't be public, what shouldn't be published. there is much that has been withheld over the years for national security reasons. it is -- but everything's extraordinary these days. it's extraordinary they didn't ask. >> they didn't even ask. that is extraordinary. "the washington post"'s brad miller, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. so, donnie, here's the operating theory that we heard people talk about last night and that -- >> some might say -- >> some might say you have this extraordinary leak damaging supposedly to the white house and damaging to the allies -- >> but really is damaging to the press -- >> because everybody came out yesterday going this is a shock, you saw it on tv, suddenly
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people last night started saying wait a second, did the trump administration do a nunez where nunez announces i've got this information, i'm going to the white house, he came out and said "i've got this information." it starting to smell a little bit here. especially -- by the way, i want somebody to give me an operating theory over the next 2:20 and clint you're going to have the first whack at this, why wouldn't the white house say don't rerelease those transcripts? >> the stuff released, nothing was horribly damaged. it was just enough for the president to sand up and go look at that evil press, look at the enemy of the state. look at what is going on here, i'm trying to run this country and the cosmopolitans and the elitist -- >> it's cosmopolitan bias. by the way, you can follow
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cosmopolitan bias on twitter. >> come on -- >> you saw it and you want to keep reinforcing that. if anything, when they see it. >> it plays into donald trump's hand -- >> kasey: the one caveat is the where he basically says, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is not going to happen, you're not going to pay for it but you can't say that. i'm not convinced he would actually want that version of the story out there. >> you were talking about the greatest hits at the top of the show, lock lock so so he said
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effectively in that phone call that was made public, that was just politics, it all going to come out in the wash. >> and now the. >> he just gotth the headline that the press is leaking theoretically that should damage with the people who elected him pu it will not. >> the people of new hampshire will reelect imhim. >> he lost new hampshire. he doesn't know that he now he's saying they're all coming up, we'll talking nor kroot cys and
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all right, that was quite a conversation. heidi pryzbyla, you wanted to jump in. jump in now. >> i just don't know this was a media setup. it could have been. if there was one community in the campaign that was almost unanimously against a president trump, it was the national security community and these transcripts kind of show exactly why they would have those types of concerns. i just don't know that this without is. it does lay out the arguments made back then by many in the national security. >> it could be like clinton and nunez, it was a setup.
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the most sthort and in the immediate kra this was extraordinary, bd leak unprecedented, damaging and yet "the washington post" went it the white house and said what should woo do in any without, would they not have wanted it to happen? >> unless you wanted it to happen. i think it's ot woo consistent flon we're put eem po. i also noticed it was immediate. you have sessions and coates coming out today. they're going to have some sort
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of public discussion about this. >> right. and yet the white house questioned didn't even psh pb. >> the most interesting story read yesterday there was prps 20-some years ago, he's a fiery personality ands that not hav g having, from prp -- is that why all of bannon's people were fired off of the faush security council? >> if noornl.
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i think this whole leak ning nr nrng. >> we've been nunezed. >> he can feel good. >> we've been nunezed. >> you know what? yes can grnl he's got somebody in the bar tonight, "oh, johnny, you were so strong, you were so strong to take on mean joe o ". >> can we tee somebody up if call me -- >> you do have a cosmo pop toll
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one that keeps you connected to what matters most. and now a response from president putin. >> translator: president donald trump, why would you sign the sanctions bill? i thought we were bffs, like gayle and oprah, if gayle had hacked into dr. phil's computer to get damaging info on stedman. did all that colluding we did mean nothing to you, donald? was it just collude, screwed, thank you, dude? i even put together this video to explain how i feel. ♪ ♪ all by myself don't want to be all by myself ♪
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>> he's upset. >> yeah. >> we have much more ahead this morning on the washington grand jury convened as part of the russia investigation. we're going to talk to a former federal prosecutor to investigating a case, and bob woodward joins the conversation. >> we need to bring back, and we've asked him to come back, willie. this is kind of like trying to get the beatles back together. how big of a check are we going to have to get pat buchanan to come back on the show? >> it's been a long time. >> we miss you, pat. there's a certain -- i don't know -- to the way you present things. kaz ma poll tin -- >> don't listen to him, but we'll give you a huge check, it may not be for much. >> can you find someone on
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capitol hill that thinks the president is an honest guy? truly? >> you know, i will start asking that question directly. >> and that's exactly what she did. kasie hunt joins us with her findings. we'll be right back. and the wolf huffed and puffed... like you do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out, which can make it hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor.
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donny -- >> good coffee, hon. >> wow. did he say that to me? >> it's from -- >> clint wats. this isn't going to go well. heidi is with us, and also robert costa and bob woodward. before we get to them, willie, you and i thrks, a grand jury is being impanelled. we thought this was a time for us. we need to get the band back together, and we got to get pat buchanan back on the show. we started talking act pat buchanan's greatest hits. right? >> yeah. >> what's your favorite? >> well, the -- >> there are good ones, obviously. water gate where he told the old man to burn the tapes or none of this would have happened. >> i liked the we asked pat why
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didn't you guys complain in 1960 after the democrats stole illinois. he said because we stole kentucky. that was a good one. >> and a deeper one from 2008. >> this is a good one. >> remember levi, the guy dating sarah palin's daughter. he was being bad and being disrespectful to the family. pat said there's an easy solution. take levi to the creek and hold his head under until the thrashing stops. i thought that was extreme, but -- >> good times, pat. >> he's a pragmatist. >> those were simple days. >> we need you back, pat. he's probably on the delaware shore right now. if he's not, we'll put a camera wherever he is. >> now there are new developments this morning in the investigation into russia, the 2016 election, and president
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trump. "the wall street journal" reports that special counsel robert mueller impanelled a grand jury to investigate russia's interference in the 2016 elections. "the washington post" now reporting that mueller began using the grand jury in d.c. several weeks ago. "the new york times" reports that mueller has issued subpoenas from the washington-based grand jury. according to several lawyers involved in the case, at least some related to former national security advisor michael flynn. nbc news reported in nay of grand jury subpoenas into flynn and paul manafort that began before mueller was appointed. federal prosecutors were using at least one other grand jury located in alexandria, virginia. a senior official has told nbc news that mueller is looking at whether the president may have obstructed justice. a grand jury is routinely used
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for complex investigations, and is not solely for hearing system but also for obtaining records. >> some of those records, let's say this morning, the president's tax returns, he's going to get them. >> a lawyer for president trump responded. we favor anything that accelerates mr. mueller's work and remain committed to fully cooperating. he added that former fbi director comey told the president at least three times he's not under investigation and that we've heard nothing that would change that. the only concern at the white house is that this be done fast and fairly. >> clint, tell us -- you see the headlines, you've heard the news over the past 18 hours, what's your take away? what are you looking at? >> i'm not surprised they've already got a grand jury and they're moving forward. this probably means they need some sort of physical evidence. i would assume they need financial records, some sort of communications records. >> and this gives them more power to -- let's say he wants
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to see if there's any money land laundering in atlantic city, he can call that up. >> right. use that evidence to essentially guide you through the investigation. >> if you have a grand jury, you can get the president's tax records? >> yeah. the more interesting one is if they're bringing witnesses to the grand jury and have them submit their statements. if they're doing that, they're trying to lock them down with their testimony. >> michael flynn has been begging everyone to give him immunity. nobody has seemed interested in it. they're calling michael flynn to the grand jury, if they are, he doesn't get immunity, he has to testify or can he still plead the fifth? >> he can plead the fifth. that helps mueller guide the investigation. if you plead the fifth or have a small piece of evidence which you can use as a cooperating websi witness, somebody who is maybe working with the investigation. >> have you heard any talk on whether he's going to cooperate with mueller? >> i haven't heard anything on
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it, but it is interesting that flynn immediately started bringing up those comments around the senate testimony, i think it was originally, that he would be interested in maybe in exchange for immunity. but you're saying immunity for what? the other thing that's been pretty well note second dod is consistently changed his financial disclosured. you wonder if it has anything to do with how the investigations are proceeding. >> wow. >> i was going to go to bob. bob, you've seen your share of investigations over the years. what's the significance here of a grand jury being impanelled in washington? there's an existing grand jury in alexandria, virginia but now moving one inside washington d.c. what does that tell you? >> this has always been a very serious investigation. the tentacles, if you were to
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list them, there are 10 or 20 here. mueller is going to feel an obligation to follow all leads and go on all tracks. so as we talked about for -- this is going to take months, if not a year or more to sort it out. i was very interested -- can i go to the question of the transcripts that -- >> sure. >> that the newspaper printed? i know gregg miller. he's one of the great reporters. there is a process which he described which is very important to understand. going to the white house, going to the government, there's nothing classified in these transcripts. i read them three times, and i think you can argue that it shows trump negotiating. this is new york real estate negotiation where you say, hey, look, if i do it your way, i'm
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going to look like a dope. so it's not unreasonable that the white house would want these out, but the job of the newspaper here which i think was done in a very orderly, responsible way, is get it, verify it, make sure there's nothing classified, nothing in here that's going to get somebody killed, and put it out. and it's fascinating reading, because joe and mika, this is the donald trump you have dealt with more years. >> yeah, and it's also, heidi, fascinating that, again, no pushback from the white house. they were notified of the story by gregg miller, and basically said okay, go ahead with it. what do you think the reaction is going to be on the hill today, though, of everything that's circling around, swirling around, especially the grand jury investigation?
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does this not actually put more of an emphasis on the legislative efforts? bipartisan legislative efforts of republicans and democrats who are trying to protect bob mueller? >> yeah. well, we saw just within the past 24 hours to 48 hours, not one effort but two efforts. now we're hearing lindsey graham is working on a separate initiative to try and essentially tie the president's hands, and then you saw a more unanimous effort by many in the senate as well to essentially organize a bunch of proform sessions. in the event that the senate leaves town and we don't know how trump is going to react about the news to the grand jury, and he does act on some of his things that he's warned about or his instincts and possibly go after sessions in order to go after muellermuelle made sure he's not able to do it by scheduling the sessions. you saw before the story, joe, members including chuck grassley
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put up a wall and a warning and said even if you fired sessions, we're not in the business of confirming a new ag for you. they are forming this protective wall around mueller even before this grand jury story broke. >> and bob costa, heidi keeps adding to this list, and it's a helpful list. last hour and this hour, about republicans pushing pack on president trump in a way they would have never pushed back a month ago. heidi talked about the sessions they put out, and it was a dibt affront to the president saying you will not have a recess appointment. then you've got republicans saying we're going to protect bob mueller by legislation. then you have the russian sanctions humiliating donald trump in front of his best friend, vladimir putin. then you have, of course, chuck grassley who has not been extraordinarily independent voice since donald trump came
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in, saying don't even think about getting rid of the ag. we're not going to move on it. and i can continue going down the list, but it's been a pretty extraordinary week on the hill for republicans pushing back. what are you hearing? and how does what happened yesterday with the grand jury being impanelled, does that accelerate republicans pushing back against the president? >> it certainly could. and if you look at that list you just detailed, joe, and you compare it to the scene last night in west virginia, you have the leading republican in the country, president trump, and his family and others speaking to the trump base in west virginia at a campaign-style rally, railing against the fake news, talking about the russia investigation as something that's demeaning, a distraction, not really true or accurate in its aims or purpose. so this is what the republican party is dealing with right now. right behind me on capitol hill
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you have a party that wants to try to box in the president so he cannot go after the special counsel or pursue different objectives on foreign policy. yet the president and his family remain adamant that all of these efforts on the russia probe are really not on the level and they want to fight back. >> and gene, how remarkable? bob talked about boxing in the president. the president has boxed himself in. he picked a war with the intel community, with the press, and he and steve bannon decided they were going to play just to the most hard core base. he now is forced to go to west virginia. >> yeah. >> and places that i grew up in. i'm not knocking west virginia, but you could go to pensacola, florida, alabama, mississippi, basically all the places i grew up in, and you would get strong crowds like that, but that is steve bannon's 33%.
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he's boiled down his support to the most hard core 33%. and now it's hard for him to reach across the aisle. it's hard for him to expand his base. it's hard for him to do anything other than play greatest hits pacts from the 2016 campaign. >> his whole political strategy has been base. that's really all he has done. the white house polls the base all the time to make sure his standing is there. i mean, you could -- you look at the polls. if you look at them very closely, you do see him slipping somewhat with the base. and so it's not all sweetness in life for him there. but just a question for bob costa. bob, what does the president think he has to gain by continuing to attack the republican majority in the senate? he's going to need these people in the future if he ever wants to get anything passed, period.
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and u.s. senators are not used to being talked to that way. what does he have to gain there? >> well, he wants to gain in short, control. and if you looked at his choice of chief of staff, he's moving away from the republican party in reince priebus and putting in this figure who he hopes will command respect on capitol hill, will command the attention of lawmakers which have begun to shrug when it comes to much of president trump's agenda. >> joining us now, a former federal prosecutor at the justice department and served as deputy special counsel in the valerie plain leak case. thank you for joining us. in terms of the grand jury, misleading statements, where does mueller and his team even begun in your mind? what are the biggest questions? >> well, where they begin is
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with the documents, and that's what they probably have been doing all along, and that will accelerate. i think their attention, i know my attention would be really keen on this, the trump tower meeting with don junior, manafort, and jared kushner. there were a lot of people at that meeting. all of them are going to get grand jury subpoenas, i'm sure. not just for their own testimony but for all of their notes and all of the e-mails, and phone records regarding that. so before they're actually put in the grand jury, prosecutors are going to want to take a look at all that background information and then they're going to have an on the record under oath discussion about what went on. >> peter, it's willie geist. the white house took great pains yesterday to point out it's not the president who is under investigation. they say there's no evidence it's the president who's under investigation by the special
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counsel. so far the grand jury was looking into paul manafort and general michael flynn. does this new grand jury impanelled in washington d.c. change the dynamic of the investigation or what we should proceed from the outside that bob mueller is actually looking at? >> just going back to that statement, it really -- it doesn't mean much. there's no reason why they would necessarily know that the president is under investigation. the government, the prosecutors are under no obligation whatsoever to inform a subject or target of an investigation that they are, until the point is made that they have made a determination to charge, so there's just no reason why they would know. i think it's -- from my perspective, it's made pretty clear after jim comey testified and after he was fired that
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there is an obstruction of justice investigation ongoing with the president. i don't say that from personal knowledge. i'm just talking about what i've read in the press and what i've seen. it simply just makes sense that they would be investigating that. >> what do you glean from the fact that there's now a panel in washington d.c., an additional grand jury panel? >> it makes sense the grand jury would be in d.c. these activities all happened in d.c. the comey meetings, the comey firing, the false statements that were made on these disclosure statements that concerned russia, they're all federal agencies. if there's a false statement, they're located in d.c. so that's really where -- you know, if there is ultimately a charge that's brought regarding the collusion, it would be a conspiracy to basically defraud
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the united states of a governmental function which would be the election. the venue for that would be washington d.c. >> attorney peter, thank you very much for being here this morning. donny deutsche, obviously you have probably more perspective on this than anybody else having worked on it in the early 70s. right now we have the congress, the senate, the press, and mueller's special team all going at it. as a guy who was in the center of the storm, what type of interaction, if any, or where are you -- there are 16 prosecutors right now. i know they're not openly talking to the press, but how are you guys in any way, shape, or form, attempting to infiltrate that process? >> well, infiltration is the wrong word. >> engaged? >> it's called reporting. and to find out what's going on, of course, it's very difficult. i was thinking about this week.
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there's so much that went on last week. this week is rivaling it, and if i may divert to what i think is the key issue here, and that is general kelly coming in as the new chief of staff for trump. there are lots of stories saying he's exercised discipline. i think he has in the white house. the big question is that speech in west virginia last night, which had no real connection to the governing problems that president trump and the administration are facing. whether the relationship between trump and general kelly is such that president trump will say, hey, what did you think of that speech last night? because joe, you know when you were in congress, your chief of staff, you would ask, what did you think? >> how did i do?
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>> what did it mean, and if there was ever a disconnect to what's going on, what the major issues of the day -- one of the big stories of the week was by nbc about the strategy for the afghanistan war, a war that's gone on for 16 yeears. a great story showing they have no idea what the strategy is, and there's a big disagreement between the military and trump. >> bob, this is fascinating. you know trump. you spent time with him in transition up at trump tower. you also know like other reporters who have spent time talking to him, that you can talk to him all you want, and you can try to move him whatever direction you're trying to move him as a reporter, but he's got his stories to tell. it's like a jukebox, and he presses a-h, and he plays that
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hit. when it's done with that, you ask him a question and he plays b-16. >> then he might hit a-4 again. >> he does go back to that again, and we have told the story before. >> he even goes off the jukebox and finds numbers that are not there. >> exactly. but i remember us, and we talked about this publicly -- him going how was my first week? how was my first week, and when we said not so good, it was shocking. and that was an obsession to him. so all he talked about. i don't know how any chief of staff breaks through that wall. >> i mean, but that is the issue. that's the wall they need to go through, because what he is doing -- i mean, that speech in west virginia last night, this wasn't two weeks ago. this is last night.
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president trump is talking about hilly clinton's 33,000 deleted e-mails. now, if there's ever anything that's not important to him and the future of the country, it is that. and there has to be some way if he's going to continue to set some of these policies, talk to his chief of staff, or talk to -- and somebody needs to say no. that was off message. we need to focus -- sorry. >> that's all right. it exactly was off message, and what you need to focus on, i'll finish your thought, is what his strategic vision is for the country and the world. every time he speaks to a big crowd, that should be the opportunity that the president takes to speak about his vision for the country, and his hopes for the country. but unfortunately, this president only goes to places where he won, where he knows he's going to get screaming
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masses, supporting him, and then he throws more red meat out. that's what we've seen. it's a waste of a massive opportunity for a president. >> and -- >> on this felony friday. >> yes. bob, that speech he gave last night, he could have given a year ago. >> he did give a year ago. >> he did. >> and, look, he's got -- you keep talking about the 33%, the trump base, that's what the polls show, but the question is for trump, what's the next stage of good for a majority, a real majority of people in this country? that's what a president has to do if he would sit down with general kelly and the people -- and kind of say hey, look, how do we frame this for the future, not the past, you're right, he could have given that speech a year ago, 18 months ago, or
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whatever it was, and this is all of these tentacles we talk about. what's going on here, what's going on in the white house. the big issues that are on his desk are giant for the country. >> bob woodward, thank you. >> hold a second. thank you so much, bob woodward. bob costa, willie and i got the three carton cigarettes. >> chesterfields. >> we're heading down to the holiday in off of 57th, and did you text beckham? >> beckham is coming. >> victoria is coming. >> all right. a little spice added. we do it every friday night, in case you guys don't know. what do you got on tonight? >> we got my colleague dan balls, susan davis. a great show. >> the beckhams love dan balt?
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this is great. this is going to be a big night for willie and me. we're looking forward to it. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll talk to chris coons about his bill to prevent the president from firing special counsel robert mueller. it is felony friday, everyone. we'll be right back. >> what the prosecutors should be looking at are hillary clinton's 33,000 deleted e-mails. hanging out in here. hanging out in here. so if you need anything, text me. do you play? ♪ ♪ use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before.
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so it only made sense to create a network that keeps up. introducing xfinity mobile. it combines america's largest, most reliable 4g lte with the most wifi hotspots nationwide. saving you money wherever you check your phone. yeah, even there. see how much you can save when you choose by the gig or unlimited. call, or go to xfinitymobile.com. xfinity mobile. it's a new kind of network designed to save you money. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us how, kasie hunt. good morning. good to see you. yesterday mika sent you on a mission. she had a question you conveyed to lawmakers on capitol hill
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about the president. what did you find? >> it was a good question she had. i have at times asked simple questions, democrats faced some tough ones in 2014 when asked to defend then president barack obama, and i think this is another example of president trump putting members of his own party in a a little bit of a tough spot. take a look. >> reporter: do you think that president trump is honest? there have been questions about his phone calls with the boy scouts and with others? >> i know you all like talking about whether or not he actually received the phone call, i'm not going down that road. most people don't think he's honest, if you believe this poll. he's got an image problem he needs to deal with. >> reporter: do you think the president is an honest man? >> yes, i do. i think he has a good time sometimes, but i think basically on very important issue, he's very honest. >> reporter: do you think the president is an honest man? >> um, yes. >> reporter: is that a no or a yes? >> i'm not going to play the game.
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>> reporter: one question -- please? >> not right now. >> reporter: i just want to know if you think the president is an honest man? that's my one question. do you think the president is an honest man? >> i think it's hard to build the confidence you need to when contradictions are recorded. you have to be more careful with how they're saying things. >> reporter: so that poll that senator graham referenced. >> kasey, when you were going after ted cruz, it looked like a reporter going after a suspect. like, where's the body? i'm not talking. i'm not talking. >> isn't the answer simple in 836 lies documented or misleading statements. that 4.4 a day. i don't think it's a question so request. >> it is for republicans. >> he lied about a sco-- the bo
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scouts. >> ted cruz, kasie hunt, he was running from you, said he wasn't going to play the game. >> slammed the door on kasie. >> rand paul also. >> it's like the action news. they're showing a tire ring they're exposing. >> anybody talk to you off the record say i can't tell you off the report? >> reporter: well, look, in fairness to first of all senator paul, he doesn't always stop, and there were potentially other questions he was running from. ted cruz i saw three separate times in the hallways, and three separate times he refused to say anything about it. i mean, this is another example of what we talk about all the time on the show which is that every time something like that happens, these members of congress say to themselves privately, not again. and this is the dynamic they're having to deal with. between the approval rating and the fact that he keeps doing
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these things in public, he puts them in a terrible position. >> ted cruz specifically, ted cruz, donald trump used the national inquirer to accuse ted cr cruz's father of assassinating jfk. he used the national inquirer to accuse ted cruz of having six affairs. he used the national inquirer for other attacks. he put up tweets saying ted cruz's wife was not attractive, basically. if you accuse my father of assassinating jfk, or plotting along with a 9/11 hijackers, i'm going to be able to go no, he doesn't tell the truth. i think it's kind of extraordinary that ted cruz can't answer that question when his own father has been accused of assassinating jfk.
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>> what did he say at the time? didn't he call him a sniveling something? it was a wonderful ted cruz quote from that moment. >> ted cruz has a couple problems. one, a lot of people who support donald trump are the same people that support ted cruz. if he pisses them off, it's a problem. two, some of his biggest patrons in the conservative movement have leaned on him hard to stop criticizing the president. he's gobne along with it. there was a point where he had no fear of attacking president trump, but it's shifted dramatically. and i think another dynamic here is we all know the president watches the news on tv. and a lot of these members whether it's ted cruz or anybody else, they've learned that the quickest way to piss the president off is to be on television saying something critical. >> uneducated males now at 40-some percent approval. what is the number where ted
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cruzs of the world feel it's safe to come out from the rock? is there a number? >> i can't speak to them. can i speak to myself. if somebody attacked my father, if somebody attacked my wife, i wouldn't -- and if my donors told me you can't family member the president, i would tell them to go straight to hell. and then find somebody to primary me. i'm going to peat thebeat their. then i'm going to come back and make your life hell because you want me to defend a man who attacked my wife's looks and said my father had a part in assassinating john f kennedy. now, a man that won't stand up and do that, a man who is looking at polls to try to figure out, listening to donors to figure out whether you defend the -- your wife, or your father's memory? that's a guy i just don't understand, donny. it's not about poll numbers.
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it's about character. how could ted cruz of all people after his wife was attacked and humiliated, and after his father was linked with the host heinous assassination in u.s. history, how could ted cruz not answer that -- of course he doesn't tell the truth. he lied about my father. he lied about my mother. he's lied about me. he's lied about six women, made their lives living and breathing hell. he lies all the time. i'm still going to try to pass legislation if it's good for the people of texas and america, but he's a liar. >> i talked with flake. to me, it is no-brainer politics at this point. forget the strength and having a spine and having any moral compass. it's even good politics at this point. that's what's stunning. >> here's what the republicans -- so many of the republican senators don't understand. when you show courage, people
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are drawn to it. drawn to it like somebody hungry for water in the desert. jeff flake? everybody oh, jeff flake, this is so dangerous. no, it's not. jeff flake's going to win reelection and be able to go to town hall meetings. i know you voted for donald trump. i don't. i'm concerned about these things, but if we can pass tax reform, i'll do it. if we can pass regulatory reform, i'll do it. it doesn't mean i need to work with him. i'm here to help you, and if donald trump wants to help me help you, we're good. but don't expect me to like this guy. and that's what ted cruz should have said. he attacked my wife. now, if somebody attacked your wife at work, what would you do? if somebody said your father assassinated jfk at work, what would you do? you would have to work with t m them. people love that. they love kuncourage.
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we've talked about it before. the biggest lane, the widest lane in american politics is the republican that stands up like jeff flake and says i'll vote with him, but it doesn't mean i have to like him, and it sure as hell doesn't mean i have to respect him, because i don't. there's nothing to respect there other than the fact that he raised some good kids. you say that? and i know. i went after gingrich in my district when he was really popular. it's gold. it's political gold, and only flake has figured that out. >> and donny, to answer your question about where is the courage? we didn't see a lot of it there. people don't want to go on the record and call the president a liar, but we'll going to talk to senator chris coons in a moment. his co-sponsor from north carolina has come out now publicly in interviews and said it's time to start taking authority back from 1600 pennsylvania and back to congress where it belongs.
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these are on the record comments. it's time for us to be an equal brarve branch. the power does not lie at the white house. >> you're right. tom thune, john mccain, ben sass. that list is getting longer. ben sass has been strong since day one, but the list is getting longer of republicans that will stand up and speak truth to power. >> speaking of the kids, we'll be read act the kids coming up. >> i'm not saying to vote against donald trump and vote liber liberal. speaking truth to power is not being moderate or liberal. coming up, senator chris coons joins us.
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oh, my gosh. we all love our kids. joining us now is one of the senators pushing legislation designed to protect robert mueller's job. democratic senator chris coons. senator, great to have you on. it sounds like the constructs are being put in place to make sure that mueller does what
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mueller does. and he doesn't get fired. >> that's right, mika. senator tillis and i and senator graham and senator booker have introduced two bills that are designed to provide protections for bob mueller for his important investigation can move forward without any fear that the president might unjustly fire him. >> so senator coons, let me ask you point-blank because there's been some dispute about this. does the president of the united states as we sit here today have the power to fire bob mueller? >> well, he's supposed to do it through the attorney general. there was some concern he might, given his recent tweets threatening so, that he might fire jeff sessions and then replace him with an acting attorney general who would then do his bidding and fire him. rod rosenstein is the current deputy attorney general. he has said in testimony that he would not fire bob mueller
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without cause. part of why we didn't go into recess just open recess, we're going to have these pro forma sessions every three days during the month of august so that the president can't make a recess appointment. that was partly to prevent the president from abruptly firing jeff sessions and replacing him with someone who might fire bob mueller. >> your bill is strengthened by the fact that it's bipartisan with thom tillis. also you mentioned booker and graham. why the two separate bills? have you considered putting them together? >> we have. i spoke with the other three senators about that on the floor yesterday. the bill that senator booker and senator graham put in as what i'd call a front end protection. before the special counsel can be fired, there has to be a review of a three judge panel if it's appropriate. and the other has a back end review where if the special counsel has been fired he can go
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to court and seek the relief of being reinstated with a three-judge panel. it's just a slight difference of approach. my hope is reaching out to other senators over the course of the break and we'll come back early in september to craft a bill that's going to have broad bipartisan support. >> heidi, jump in. >> good morning. at what point was there a certain moment that you realized that legislation like this might be necessary? what was it, and how did it come about? did you go to the republicans? did they come to you? >> thom tillis came across the floor of the senate and said i want to legislate on this, and i want to do it today. it was a striking moment for me. we've all gotten used to the idea that there's a number of republican senators who are standing up to the president. obviously john mccain, lindsey graham, jeff flake, ben sass, others. but this is the first time that senator tillis with whom i've worked on other issues has chosen to step forward and introduce a bill that is expressly designed to restrain
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the president's power to act in an abrupt and in an inappropriate way. >> senator chris coons, thank you very much. up next one of the president's fiercest critics. congresswoman mac se congresswoman maxine waters joins the conversation, and we'll make sure she gets her time. >> you're claiming my time. let me just say to you, thank you for your compliments about how great i am, but i don't want to waste my time on me.
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time and put it right here on "morning joe." you were the first to talk imetch poohment. >> yes. >> i think in terms of press and analysis you got to be careful, but are we at a point where we should, given the grand jury news we have received over the past 24 hours? >> i've long thought that there was a lot of smoke, even fire. and that everything that i have learned about this president, starting with the campaign itself. that people should have understood that it was something terribly wrong with him. as a matter of fact, i've said over and over again, i think he's the most deplorable person i've ever met in my life. and i think when you take a look at his allies and some in his cabinet, all these people around him, with connections to the ukraine or to russia or to oil, everybody should have known that. we should have moved faster. our intelligence committees have not moved fast enough.
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but i have my hopes for mueller as most people do. i think he's going to connect the dots. and i think we're nearing a constitutional crisis. >> what about with general kelly coming in as chief of staff? are you hopeful as an american that he may be able to stabilize things inside the oval office? >> no, no. we've been talking about this president becoming presidential or transitioning long enough. it's not going to happen. he is a flawed man. with no real values. and no real appreciation or understanding for government or public policy. i have no hopes that anybody's going to be able to contain him or that he's going to change. >> it's clear obviously from your comments not just here this morning but in the past that you don't like president trump. you called him deplorable this morning. >> yes. >> there's a difference between a person being deplorable and not having values and being worthy of impeachment. there has to be evidence and charges brought on something like that. >> of course.
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>> it sounds like you've gotten to a place where you're saying let's wait for bob mueller's investigation. >> i've always said the dots have to be connected. i've always said that i believe that he was impeachable. and i'm very pleased that i have to generate the conversation about him. i know i was early. and i know that i talked about manafort and some of the others very early. more than most people were talking about. but of course you have to have the information. you have to connect the dots. i think it's there. >> you know this congress. you know the members of this congress. you're there every day. will this congress with its big republican majority ever, under any circumstances, smoking gun, corpse, the whole nine yards. >> shooting somebody in the middle of fifth avenue. >> exactly. will it ever impeach donald trump? >> you know what i'm betting on? i'm betting on when the dots are connected and mueller is able to
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show collusion, i'm banking on the patriotism of some of the americans, most of them. they won't be able to stand with him if it is proven that they colluded, that they undermined our democracy, interfered with our elections, that they're going to be able to see that this president is dangerous and i do believe that patriotism will win in the final analysis. >> congresswoman, we were talking earlier about certain senators are starting to kind of stand up, for lack of a better word. with some of your friends across the aisle in the house, are you hearing from them? are you starting to sense that more and more just along the lines of the senate, a lot of the -- we got to get off this train? >> i've talked with a few quietly and privately and no, i've not heard yet that they're ready to move, but i have picked up that they are concerned, that
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they're uncomfortable. and that even though they're not at this point saying that they will turn against him and they would support impeachment, i have sensed the uneasiness and i've heard the concern. >> so what connection do you thing there is between donald trump and russia? >> i believe that this president tried to convince putin that he could lift those sanctions. i believe that he had putin believing that he had the power and the influence to do that. and this is what i think it's all about. i think it's about trilling in the arctic. and i think it's about lifting those sanctions. all of those people and allies of the president, surrounding him, whether it's roger stone or manafort, all of them are some kind of way involved in the sanctions issue. take a look at what putin is saying now. he is truly disappointed. he thought this president would be able to do that.
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and so it's going to be interesting to see what unfolds and what he's willing to do. we know that he's kicking out some of our diplomats. most of them. at this point. but i think it's going to get worse because he is disappointed. he thought that this president would be able to lift the sanctions. >> maxine, there's nothing as sad as love gone bad. >> romance gone bad. >> scorned lovers. vladimir putin, donald trump. >> that's right. >> the bloom, willie, it's off the rose. congresswoman maxine waters, thank you. it's good to see you. >> good to see you. >> don't mess -- >> as i always said, i used to go up on the floor and hug her and she'd push me away, saying you're killing me in my district. >> yeah, i don't want nobody to know it though. >> exactly. still ahead, much more on the federal grand jury as they convene as part of the russia investigation. we'll talk to "the wall street journal" reporter who broke that story. plus, the president's response to a fired up crowd of supporters in west virginia.
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what's the story behind green mountain coffee and fair trade? let's take a flight to colombia. this is boris calvo. boris grows mind-blowing coffee. and because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm and invest in his community to make even better coffee. all for a smoother tasting cup. green mountain coffee. the russia story is a total fabrication. it's just an excuse for the greatest loss in the history of american politics. that's all it is. >> kind of curious. >> yeah. >> i did not know. >> yeah.
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>> that maybe gene robinson, you can help me out here. you and i were the only ones alive in 1936. i didn't know that the good people of west virginia knew that much about fdr's landslide over al flanden. the greatest loss. >> greatest loss. >> in political history. >> yes, they teach that i think in the first week -- >> the greatest loss. >> the greatest loss. >> some would say fdr beating goldwater in '64. >> and it was a neat trick, since he lost the popular vote actually. but it was the greatest. it was absolutely -- >> and the lowest electoral vote total, willie geist, for anybody winning since, what, bush in '88? >> the grievance never ends. >> the grievance never ends. >> even in a big rally where you've got a roomful of people who are there for you. they're buying everything you're selling right there. you still got to go back.
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>> grievance was the point, the whole point. they're doing this to you. they are trying to steal away. >> that's right. >> this can be like the equivalent for the 2030s of, like, dead heads, right? because they're playing the hits, right? but they're from last year, so they don't lock her up. it's going to be like 232 and trump's going to be 110 and he'll be -- they'll be like in their tie dyed with hillary in the middle. >> i've got a bootleg gold star from the west virginia -- >> we have backed into the morning enough. >> okay, great. so we keep thinking that we hit the story of the summer. >> they're playing the hits. >> and another big story breaks. good morning, everyone. we'll explain all of this. it's friday, august 4th. >> no, we won't be able to
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explain. >> what a long week. >> thank god. this never ending -- >> never anything to talk about. >> friday, we can relax. >> what is saturday going to bring. that's what i want to know. because this has been one hell of a week. >> do you know what you called last friday? >> failure friday. so what do we call this one? grand jury friday? >> no, i think actually, write it down, children, #felonyfriday. >> felony friday. >> ding, ding, ding, ding. >> we have a winner. >> that's a good one, joe. with us is prize-winning columnist eugene robinson. donny deutsch is here. former fbi special agent and msnbc contributor clint watts. senior politics reporter at "usa today," heidi prisbella. great to have you. >> kind of big news. >> yeah, new developments this morning in the investigation into russia. the 2016 election. and president trump. "the wall street journal" reports that special counsel robert mueller has impanelled a
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grant jury in washington to investigate russia's interference in the 2016 elections. "the washington post" now reporting that mueller began using the grand jury in d.c. several weeks ago. "the new york times" reports that mueller has issued subpoenas from the washington-based grand jury, according to several lawyers involved in the case, at least some related to former national security adviser michael flynn. nbc news reported in may of grand jury subpoenas into flynn and campaign chairman paul manafort that began before mueller was appointed. federal prosecutors had been using at least one other grand jury located in alexandria, virginia. former senior intelligence official with knowledge of the discussions has told nbc news that mueller is looking at whether the president may have obstructed justice. a grand jury is routinely used for complex investigations and is not solely for hearing testimony but also for obtaining
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records. a lawyer for president trump responded. we favor anything that accelerates mr. mueller's work and remain committed to fully cooperating. he added that former fbi director comey told the president at least three times that he's not under investigation and we've heard nothing that would change that. the only concern at the white house is that this be done fast and fairly. >> if you take the lawyers for the president, if people actually are representing him and not just those playing lawyers on tv, they have been disciplined. they have kept their head down. they've been respectful of the process. they've been respectful of robert mueller. and that's fairly important. even yesterday they were respectful of robert mueller. while these tv attorneys that probably go before judge judy and judge wapner go up there and embarrass themselves. so this is obviously taking it
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to another stage. means so many things. one of the things it means is, you know, when we live in the lazy hazy days of the mooch era, people say you can't obstruct justice because there's not really an investigation yet and there's not really a grand jury impanelled. that changes. >> yes. >> there is' grand jury impanelled. good luck firing the guy that put a grand jury together. republicans, whether they're from north carolina or south carolina, i mean, you look at two guys from the the carolinas going no, we're going to pass legislation. you can't touch mueller. now that we see there is a grand jury impanelled. firing him is simply untenable now politically. >> yes, this tells you pretty clearly that the investigation that director mueller, former director mueller is undertaking, is about a lot more than michael flynn. a because as "the wall street journal" reports, we already knew about a grand jury in virginia looking into flynn and manafort. now, this grand jury is a separate one.
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you wouldn't need two for the same guy and the same crime. so this is a separate one. which means this is a much bigger investigation about anything than just michael flynn. >> and also past financial crimes. >> exactly. >> let's bring in "wall street journal" reporter who broke this story, dell quentin wilber. if you could dig in a little bit more for us. first on the question of venue. having something, a grand jury in washington, d.c., separate and apart from the one in alexandria, virginia, what's the significance there? >> well, it shows that the mueller investigation has expanded beyond just flynn and manafort. we already knew that the northern virginia grand jury about ten traffic clogged roadway miles from d.c. had been looking into that with federal prosecutors. now they're going to be working with the federal grand jury closer to his offices in d.c. which is, a, much more convenient. b, if you were only looking at flynn and manmanafort, you woult need a new grand jury. this shows the investigation has
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broadened. >> just to be clear, the significance broadly of having a grand jury, what might it be doing right now and what can it do potentially? >> grand juries are a powerful investigative tool for prosecutors. the federal prosecutor will say, hey, he asked the federal judge to start a grand jury or there's already one that's been started and the federal prosecutor in this case robert mueller will go to the grand jury and say, hey, i'm investigating this, this, and this. i need your authority to permit me to issue subpoenas, gather information, bring some witnesses to you, compel testimony. and by issuing those subpoenas, people have to comply or they get hauled before court. >> right. >> if they avoid it. and it locks people in to their testimony. if it's near his office, it's much easier to work with a witness before in your secure facility. they won't say where their office is, he just say it's a secure facility. then you hustle them to the grand jury and lock in their testimony. >> you look at the last grand
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jury impanelled for a president. you look at bill clinton. there are a lot of people that knew that bill clinton committed perjury in his deposition that said, okay, he was surprised, it was a deposition, we're not going to impeach him for committing perjury in a deposition. once you go in front of a grand jury, you lie in front of a grand jury, at leaf where i'm from, you go to jail. penitentiary in atlanta, georgia, for a time. i guess for people at home to understand, this isn't just some little procedural trick. the stakes have been raised. you lie in front of a grand jury, you're a felon and you're going to jail. and if you're a president, you're going to get impeached. >> you're going to get impeached. and, you know, it's -- the fbi can ask you to come in and interview. of course, a grand jury can compel you to come in under oath without your lawyer and answer
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questions. and you better answer them truthfully. >> it's a whole different ball game. >> dell, this is gene robinson. great story. >> thank you. >> what do you know about potential subpoenas that might have been already issued for testimony or for documents? >> well, you know, other news organizations including "the post," "the times" and reuters have reported that they've issued subpoenas to various people involved in this investigation. they're looking at possible crimes ranging from obstruction of justice to, you know, the underlying facts involving michael flynn and his work for, you know, foreign business interests. and so the point of the grand jury process, it's so interesting, it's very secretive but it's not completely secret. so what it tells you is mueller had took over comey's and the fbi's counterintelligence investigation. if you do a counterintelligence investigation, it's very secret.
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grand juries are also secret but it's a level of public disclosure that can come with it. for example, witnesses can leave the grand jury and tell you everything they said. you got a subpoena, you can put it online. so there's more of a risk of things becoming public. so that means it's kind of entering a new public phase. >> and the grand jurors themselves can't -- are not allowed to talk about what happened in the grand jury room but anybody who testified is allowed. this is a new special grand jury impanelled specifically for this case. it's not just using a grand jury that was already sitting, is that right? >> what we reporteded is that he went and got his own grand jury. and it makes a lot of sense that he would. because you wouldn't want to, like, schedule -- if you're working on a very complex investigation like this and you have to present evidence eventually to the grand jury, you have to make reports to them, you don't want to -- if it's going to go on for a while, you don't want grand juror's minds getting cluttered up with
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150 other cases. but, again, it's also, like being under a grand jury investigation does not mean there's going to be indictments. it doesn't mean anybody's going to be charged. it's secretive for a reason, to protect the innocence, right? it's not a public flogging. and so, you know, it's an interesting step. it's an important step. but it does not mean that, you know, people's hair should be on fire and we should be viewing this as, you know, indictments coming down the road. >> dell quentin wilber, thank you. up next, there's another layer on the russia investigation. the fbi isn't just investigating the issue, they may be witnesses too. what's the the bureau's acting director now warning high-nk raing ranking officials about? boost. it's about moving forward, not back.
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vox is reporting that in may acting fbi director andrew
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mccabe warned they should consider themselves potential witnesses whether president trump engaged in obstruction of justice over the russia investigation. >> this was coming. as soon as comey was fired and the way it was in the special counsel comes forward, anybody that knew about the comey memos or had a discussion with comey and what the characterization of that relationship might be with trump is going to ultimately probably going to have to come in and be talked to. it's going to be a very interesting dynamic. because you're also talking about mueller team that knows many of these people. i mean, they all worked together at the fbi. it will be an interesting way to see how those conversationings are characterized and what comey said to his fbi agents when he went pack to the office. >> want to get heidi in but first here's more of president trump speaking out about russia last night at his campaign rally in west virginia. >> the reason why democrats only talk about the totally made-up russia story is because they
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have no message, no agenda and no vision. the russia story is a total fabrication. it's just an excuse for the greatest loss in the history of american politics, that's all it is. try winning at the voter booth. what the prosecutor should be looking at are hillary clinton's 33,000 deleted e-mails. have you seen any russians in west virginia or ohio or pennsylvania? are there any russians here tonight, any russians? they can't beat us at the voting booths so they're trying to
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cheat you out of the future and the future that you want. they're trying to cheat you out of the leadership you want with a fake story that that is demeaning to all of us and most importantly demeaning to our country and demeaning to our constitution. >> if you've got the law on your side, argue the law, right? if you've got the facts on your side, argue the facts. if you got neither on your side, argue. and that's what he's doing. i mean, there's nothing that -- are there russians in west virginia? i don't think so. but there are russians, donny in florida, there are russians in palm beach, there are russians that paid, what, $30 million, $40 million more for a trump house than they should have paid? >> yes. >> there are russians in new york that have come to donald trump's office in the middle of a campaign and said, hey, we're connected with the russian government and we have
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information on your political opponent that we want you to use. there are russians -- >> russians in trump tower who are laundering money. out of that picture, there were 13 white faces. you know you've been in politics a long time when there are very orchestrated faces behind you. there were 13 white faces. >> wow. >> heidi, you also were looking at the 33%. not the 1%. you're looking at the 33%. the latest quinnipiac poll has donald trump sitting at 33%. i don't want to anger my democratic friends because i have so many of my democratic friends. but there's a time that democrats back in 2006 could have gotten 33% of the people, democrats, to go out and say that george w. bush was behind september 11th. i think the numbers are actually higher than that. they're going into the 40s. so what people need to understand when they see this,
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this is steve bannon's 33%. and that's all they've been playing for. so yes, you can get a crowd of the 33%. they're going to be more fired up, right, because they feel more isolated from the other 67%. >> so, joe, take that quinnipiac 33% and then overlay a map of the states. if you look at state approval, state by state, where is trump at about 60%, in west virginia and in the mountain west. if you want to distill that, those people, 33%, are disproportionately concentrated in states like west virginia. >> so he went to them. >> this is, in part, a feel-good kind of moment for him, to kind of go back to his base. but also to send a message to us. here, the elites in washington and on the east -- on the coast that hey, i still have this loyal army of followers. but what's i think really
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remarkable about this, joe, is he's also coming back to these same people, hat in hand, and giving the same kind of red meat campaign speech. not 100 days into his presidency but 200 days into his presidency with essentially nothing to show them on his make america great again agenda other than what he's done by executive order and with his pen. none of the things like infrastructure, the big kind of -- bring back jobs to the forgotten man agenda. it's nowhere in sight. and yet these people still love him. >> we'll speak with a reporter who obtained and published leaked transcripts of president trump's calls with foreign leaders. >> why is it so easy to get those transcripts?
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and i'm an arborist with i'pg&e in the sierras. the drought in california has killed trees on a massive scale. any of those trees that fail into power lines could cause a wildfire or a power outage. public safety is the main goal of our program. that's why we're out removing these hundreds of thousands of hazard trees. having tools and technology gives us a huge edge to identify hazard trees. my hope is that the work we're performing allows that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. together, we're building a better california. to have people there that are leaking information that are talking to each of you to have their public policy implemented because they're getting you to argue on their behalf, and we
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know it's happening, these people should be fired. they're disloyal to our government. i hope that's what's going to happen. >> the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee is sounding off on government leaks based on this next story. "the washington post" has obtained and printed the transcripts to president trump's phone calls with australian prime minister malcolm turnbull and mexican president from earlier this year. note the transcripts had minor spelling and grammatical errors including misspelling turnbull's first name which are preserved here. in the january 27 call with the mexican leader, president trump pushed his promise of a border wall, saying it put both men in a, quote, political bind. he urged pena nieto to drop his public resistance and instead say the two leaders will work it out. he saided, if you're going to say that mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then i do not
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want to meet with you guys anymore, because i cannot live with that. the president also said, believe it or not, this is the least important thing we're talking about but politically this might be the most important to talk about. and you may recall that president trump said earlier reports that his call with the australian prime minister turnbull were contentious, were fake news and that the call was very civil. however, the transcript reveals otherwise. >> what a surprise. >> with trump interrupting turnbull at one point in the heated discussion on a refugee deal, saying, quote, as far as i'm concerned, that is enough, malcolm, i've had it. i've been making these calls all day and this is the most unpleasant call all day. >> so who said -- >> putin was a pleasant call -- >> willie, we conservatives, i put myself at the top of the list, i was enraged when "the washington post," in what, 2005, 2006, printed the locations of black sites across europe.
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from allies that have made a really tough political decision. to help the united states in what we call war against terror. and i thought that was so reckless. because it's, like, who's going to help us now in the future? this takes it to an even higher level. where now if you're a foreign leader, you can't even call the white house. without being afraid that every word you say is going to spill out the front pages of the paper in your home country. >> well, it does -- the transcripts don't make donald trump look good, but they also don't make the presidents of mexico and the prime minister of australia look great either. they're talking about, i have to say this publicly because this is happening behind the scenes. if a foreign leader doesn't have the confidence that what he's discussing with the president of the united states isn't going to go wide, isn't going to be on the front page of "the washington post," they're just not going to talk to the president of the united states. because it hurts then at home. let's go right to the reporter who broke the story, who got
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some of the transcripts of president trump's phone calls, national security correspondent for "the washington post," greg miller. greg, good morning. i suspect you're not going to reveal your sources here. but can you share a little bit about how these transcripts fell into your hands? >> yeah, not so much, but, i mean, i will say, look -- >> donald trump called you and said you want some transcripts? i got a leaked story, right? >> look, stranger things have happened. >> stranger things have happened, indeed. many people are speculating may happen. go ahead. >> i think you guys are all right. this is extraordinary and we recognize that when we obtained these transcripts. this isn't the kind of thing where where we're accustomed to seeing even those of us who cover this for "the washington post." but these are extraordinary conversations that the president of the united states is having. these are conversations in which he's referring to one of the states he governs, new hampshire, as a drug infected den, saying that is why he won that state, you know, he's
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subjecting a very, very close ally, a country that has fought alongside the united states for a century, in every conflict, to a stream of invektive and abuse, really. so these are extraordinary conversations. i don't know what would have happened if a prior president had treated an ally or a leader of a close neighbor this way. perhaps we would have seen trap skri transcripts like that in those cases. >> we're moments away from a new jobs report on the heels of another record day on wall street. >> we're going live to the new york stock exchange.
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we have breaking news now with the release of the monthly jobs report. let's go to cnbc's sara eisen at the new york stock exchange. sara, what does the report show? >> good morning. a very strong read on the jobs
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market in this country. 209,000 ons added during the month of july. that was a lot better than the 180,000 jobs that economists were looking for. as far as the up employment rate, it did tick lower which is what we want to see, 4.3% is the nation's unpayment rate. that matches the lowest level in about 16 years. as for wages, we've all been waiting to see wages rise. their are rising slightly. 0.3%. that is exactly what economists were expecting in terms of how much earnings would rise. it means that from last year at this time, wages are rising 2.5%. it's a little tepid. we want to see that to be stronger during this cycle of the recovery. and with this many jobs added. but overall, it's a pretty healthy picture of the job market in this country. i'll also give you a labor force participation, which showed that more people are entering the labor force, guy, 62.the.
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that was a slight uptick from the month before. as far as when jobs were created, leisure and hospitality. restaurant. health care continues to add jobs. one weak spot, this is a continuation of what we've been seeing, retail, only adding 900 jobs as the e-commerce boom sort of takes jobs from retailers. they've been closing stores and laying off retailers, guys. >> cnbc's sara eisen, thank you. >> that's a pretty good jobs report, gene. fairly healthy. it's, again, we're not getting 3% growth -- >> no, we're not. >> we usually want to get 200,000 every month if you're going to keep pace. >> yes. >> the unemployment rate goes down. >> unemployment rate goes down. it's kind of an odd economy. i mean, we're pretty close to what you would call full employment. >> right. >> i mean, 4.3% is very low. yet there's this question of
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labor force participation. there's this sort of general it's okay sort of feeling about the economy in general. so it's not like people were popping the champagne corks necessarily. the dow is -- >> donald trump even said last night, willie, you've always got to be careful if you're a politician. you want to celebrate any good news in the economy but you know there are people out in the audience hurting because maybe they had a union job, you know, 15 years ago where they were making $40,000, $50,000 and now maybe they're working at walmart making, you know, $18,000, $19,000, $20,000. he sort of said that. he said, you know, things are getting better but a lot of good people out there have just stopped looking for jobs. >> if we're going to start worrying about the retail sector, too. i mean, if we're really going to worry, the retail sector. >> i mean, it's just gone. >> i know. >> like amazon, now walmart is
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being so aggressive and competing with amazon. >> yeah, well. >> this is the argument donald trump's been making since the beginning of his administration. making this week online. is that the stock market is up, crossinged 22,000 this week. the jobs numbers are coming back. this is why you electeded me. by the way, this is good news for the economy. >> we should celebrate this. this shouldn't be a political number. >> no, this is good news for the economy. i'm sure a lot of people in barack obama's administration are very excited. >> about the work they've done. >> that for eight years. we will see the impact of trump policies a year, two years from now. and there's just not an economist out there that won't tell you that's how it works. >> joining us now, msnbc chief legal correspondent and hospital of the beat at 6 p.m. on ms nbc. now a seen are you fellow at the atlantic council, dr. evelyn. and now an nbc news national
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security analyst, jeremy mesh. >> i really, really love the name of ari's show, the beat. because you're pretty sure at the end he's going to do what dig clark used to do at the end of american bandstand and ask the kids in the audience to rate the records. >> it's a countdown show, right? >> we want time for mika to freestyle. >> what are the big questions here, given the grand jury news? >> the fbi doesn't investigate people, it investigates crimes. when you have a grand jury, it means there was probable cause a crime was committed. in our case, complex. because this could be a foreign hacker committed a felony in cyber hacking. we're almost certain, acording to the u.s. government, that happened. it may have happened in washington, d.c. which tells you a little bit about where the grand jury is and doesn't tell you that anybody did anything wrong. donald trump says a lot of inaccurate things. he's not inaccurate in the broad strokes as we know them last night. when he suggests, well, hey, there's no russians at this
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rally. that's part of his defense. we'll see. having said that, it is always bad news for a white house to have one of these things convene because this is a tool of prosecutors, it is a powerful tool, and it means you can haul people, including senior government officials or members of the president's family, before a binding tribunal where any lie is a felony. >> by the way, mika, donald trump's wish, that they're just going to stay in a small little sand box, is ahistorical. we always talk about the bill clinton example. a failed land deal. sexual harassment. lying under oath about sex. richard nixon's investigation. the watergate investigation. sent a lot of guys to prison that had nothing to do with breaking into the watergate. the vice president of the united states kicked out of office and convicted on tax evasion. so these are sprawling investigations. if they find illegal behavior anywhere, they have to go after
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it. >> so, jeremy, on the surface of it, what are the questions at the very least that could reveal something interesting here and then, evelyn, what are the big foreign policy issues brewing that we're ignoring because of this you know what show? jeremy, go. >> well, first of all, a couple of things. first of all, you're not going to be able to bring your lawyer into the grand jury and that means it's a much more powerful tool than just a bunch of fbi agents asking for an interview. second is you've got to produce documents. most companies that possess e-mails, possess phone records, want to have a subpoena from the grand jury before they turn things over. importantly, as ari alluded to, you can't invoke executive privilege in front of the grand jury. if mueller is investigating the issue of comey's firing and people like jeff sessions, rod rosenstein, people inside the white house, want to assert executive privilege beforening could, before the public, they cannot do that in bob mueller's
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grand jury. >> evelyn. >> i think on the foreign policy front, it's obvious we have a complete stalemate. we don't have a russia policy which is really important because russia's the number one adversary right now, like it or not. >> isn't it fascinating that mike pence goes out, sounds like ronald reagan when he's talking about russia. >> yeah, yeah. >> he is as strong as you could ask anybody to be. >> right. >> james mattis is strong on russia as anybody could be. >> all the way up to pence, but not above him, we see a united front. congress of course is united. i believe congress speaks for the american people. i think the american people on some level get it as bell. but the president doesn't. we need a united policy on russia. obviously there's a north korea issue. we have the president talking more about north korea and russia which i think is a mistake because he needs to calm down the rhetoric on north korea and use the sanctions to force the negotiations to start with the north koreans. it will be a combination of sanctions. so stick. and possible carrot if we get
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the chinese on board to help the north koreans with economic development. and then talk about famines and, you know, the middle east and there's so many things that we're not talking about. >> there's so many people in the white house who are tasked to help shape policy. let's talk about that. joe has a piece in today's "washington post" about jared kushner and ivanka trump. he writes in part this, americans have seen enough headlines over the past six months to better understand why nepoism does not work in the white house. though my words may suggest otherwise, i genuinely like jared and ivanka. i also love joey, andrew, catherine and jack scarborough but i wouldn't let them run my morning show nen more than trump should let his children run rough shod over white house operations. vice presidents, not daughters, should sit in g-20 umts and the secretary of state should broker middle east peace, not an inexperienced 36-year-old son-in-law. i have no doubt that trump's daughter and son-in-law believe they are working hard to make america and the world a better place. but now the best thing they can
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do for their country is to move back to new york and let professionals take over. also, evelyn and jeremy, this line, because kriushner was giv this foreign policy role. the quiet diplomacy kushner deployed so effectively during the campaign gave way to the sort of stubborn arrogance that often infects the winning side of a presidential campaign. trump's shocking victory led his son-in-law to believe he could reinvent government, like al gore, micromanage the white house like james baker, and restructure the middle east like moses. jeremy, is he qualified to do any of that? >> let's focus, jeremy, really on foreign policy. and the fact that we don't have a secretary of state right now. we have a de facto secretary of state. and the white house thinks they can run it all from inside the white house. >> i don't know, i think actually secretary tillerson is trying to assert himself on a couple of key issues. he really yanked pa eed back fr
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white house dealing with this middle east crisis between the gulf countries. who i think is trying to get some order and discipline around that chaos. the problem is you can't fire family. and john kelly or anybody needs to be able to go in there and tem hard truths to the president and be prepared to walk away if they have a fundamental disagreement. that's very difficult when you're dealing with family members. >> evelyn, it's always been too much to ask of jared kushner to broker middle east peace. because relationships in israel. the larger question to me is the state department, they have not filled all the positions that might be working on these things instead of jared kushner. >> it's a catastrophe. >> what's happening end side for people who don't know? >> jared kushner made a comment when he was talking to the interns recently where he said, well, we've read enough books. no, you haven't. get more briefings. bring the experts in. >> by the way, that's been their attitude from the beginning. don't tell me about history. we can just go to the middle
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east and pretend like nothing's ever happened before. and stop letting -- by the way, they have frustrated so many foreign policy experts that have gone in there and said you need to understand about the '67 borders and understand how it's connected with this. they said, listen, we've read enough history books, okay, we've got this. >> i'm all for doing something new but you have to understand what the mistakes were and what the pitfalls were in the past so you don't remake those mistakes. >> that's kind of basic. >> gene, really quickly. >> jared and ivanka are nice, smart people. but we need people in those jobs, in those offices -- >> they're filling up space. >> -- who have read a lot of books and who know stuff -- >> filling up space and creating discomfort. >> knowing stuff is important. >> just so you know for the beat at 6:00 p.m. eastern time on msnbc. the hash tag is felony friday. jeremy, evelyn farkas, thank you both. last night, the president turned
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to his base for a boost. up next, we'll hear from supporters at his west virginia rally. even though gene robinson writes this morning that trump is delusional about his popularity. plus, the reverend al sharpton joins the conversation. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ what's the story behind green mountain coffee and fair trade? let's take a flight to colombia. this is boris calvo. boris grows mind-blowing coffee. and because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm and invest in his community to make even better coffee. all for a smoother tasting cup. green mountain coffee.
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at blue apron, we work directly with more than a hundred family farms. so instead of spending on costly middlemen and supermarkets, we can invest in the things that matter most: making farmland healthier. cutting down on food waste. and bringing you higher quality, fresher ingredients for less than you pay at the store. because food is better when you start from scratch. get $30 off at blueapron.com/cook so west virginia is the state that gave president trump his second largest margin of victory over hillary clinton. he won by 42 points and while last night's event had its fair
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share of protesters, this stop was all about rallying the base. lewis filed this report from the rally. ♪ >> reporter: protesters. >> we're americans. we won't stand for his bigotry, his hatred. >> west virginia is known as wild wonderful west virginia. when trump gets done with it, it's going to be a wasteland. >> standing up and saying enough is enough. >> i am thrilled to be back in the very, very, very beautiful state of west virginia. >> i want to know if these trump supporters are happy with the job that the president's doing. what do you guys think? >> yes! whooo! >> i think he's working hard to do the american people a good job. >> i think he's doing an amazing
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job. >> i'm very pleased with what he's done as soon as he got into office. he hit the ground running. >> right now west virginia, 13,000 miners have been put back to work in the first six months he's been in office. 13,000 miners that had been fired because of the environmental policies of barack obama. good enough for me. >> if nothing else we've gained more dignity because he's given us a hope we haven't had for years in this area. >> everything he's doing, he's doing a good job. >> has donald trump lived up to your expectations? >> not yet, but he might. >> trump, he's a human being like me. he understands where i'm coming from. no russian came to my house and said you need to vote for him. >> i think the senate and congress should be doing better. >> you agree? >> yes. the senate and congress could do a lot more. >> what's your view on fake news? do you believe it happens as much the president says it does? >> i believe fake news happens no matter what. >> i think there's a lot of fake news out there, absolutely.
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>> i follow the news rather closely, and, yes. >> there's obviously fake news. russian collusion. >> you vote for donald trump again? >> absolutely. >> we'll see what happens tomorrow. how's that? >> yes, i would. >> no doubt? >> no doubt. >> i'd vote for donald trump again. >> in a heartbeat. in a heart bae. without hesitation. >> absolutely. yes. 100%. >> 100% yes. >> oh, definitely. yes. right there. >> so with us now, we of got the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. for a lot of people in manhattan, sort of in the bubble. that reminded me of a bloomberg focus group that shocked a lot of people back in august of 2015 where you had working-class people saying he understands me. he gets me. nobody else out there gets me. they're still saying that two years later.
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why? >> i think that they don't get that he is someone that gets them and reflects them. i remember right on this show, we talked about how he was able to channel being an outsider because he was outside the manhattan real estate aristocracy and he called me after the show. that's who he is. i think that with all of the strategists, the democrats are using, they do not get the point of how isolated and marginalized a lot of americans feel that he's playing to. now, he's not servicing them. he's not dealing with their problems, but they see him in them and vice versa. every time you attack him, they say you're attacking us. every time they come after him, they're reinforcing his outsider status. >> i always said the thing that was so interesting, politics for me is i could walk into a room and you knew immediately like
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the room read you, you read the room and i go, i'm going to be just fine. preachers get that too. i walked into other rooms and i've gone, okay, i'm just going to say hi and bye. but trump, he walks into a room, and they sense that resentment that he's felt in manhattan. and i will tell you, 30, 35 years, people have mocked him, they've ridiculed him, doesn't matter how tall the buildings are, how successful the tv shows. and he has resented it. the more we attack him, the more powerful we make him. >> that sense of grievance, that sense of outsiderness is clearly something that is really worked for him and continues to work for him. you know, my question is why should anyone be -- we to out and do these stories, well, the base still supports donald trump. it's six months. what really shocked me if it
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evaporated away in the course of six months. there would be a lot of people out there it seems to me who would say let's give him time, give him a chance. they voted for him for various reasons, that sense of grievance, tooles do specific things. >> the next thing we're doing, rech, is we sent louis out, we wanted to send him to redst pde part of america, now pennsylvania next, and we'll see more of a split. but it is important for us to remind ourselves and for democrats that want to take it back, there's still a lot of people in middle america that still would vote for trump in a new york second and not think twice about it. >> they see him as an outsider like him who beat the other guys. >> who beat the system. >> yeah, they see some things they don't like, but he beat these guys, i can beat them. and i think the democrats have not maybe come up with a cultural of political figure to
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rally that. >> they still don't. >> they're still trying to appeal to people that do not identify with them and not going to the base that does, that needs them to speak for them. you're running away from who loves you to somebody who looks at you like you look down on me, i don't care what you say. >> right. >> i think they like his attitude. i think there has been a lot of what we call chaos and disorganization, which up close you can see why, when you look at what you've reported on, the type of staffing. you wrote about the vacancies left for formal officials. i think at a greater distan ce it's a blurrier picture, looks like washington is not working, a new story, freaking out over thing, not a new story, and here's a guy at the top who has an attitude they like. i think the problem is six months, 12 months, 18 months, if nothing he promised gets done, is the attitude enough to carry. >> they blame the republicans in house and the senate. >> they're still not going to vote -- >> what the president was doing
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and saying last night i think was potentially dangerous, though, which is going further and saying this whole russia investigation, they are trying to steal from you what you voted for, trying to steal it from you. and that is -- >> a strong message. >> another step. >> a strong message. >> what he did with the police last week. we have a march august 28th. he's sitting on a lot of danger here but you can't try to turn his base around. you have to energize and organize your base. >> if you're running the democratic party, what do you tell them? >> go to the base. they ignored a lot of the african-american churches. they ignored a lot of the black radio. they ignored latino. they were too busy flirting with people who wouldn't give him a date rather than the one who is went to the prom with him for the last 40 years and they stayed home in key states because you never came and talked to them at all. the democrats need to quit
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fooling themselves. >> you got to ask for the votes. i'm going to ask you -- >> felony friday? >> felony friday. what tunes are you going to be spinning tonight on the beat? >> you know, that's a big question. other than your new album, we like kendrick lamar a little bit. >> very good. >> what do you think of kendrick lamar? >> great. great. who do you have on the show tonight? do you know yet? >> i do. i think what i'm most excited about is we have my old boss, floyd abrams -- >> oh. >> talking tact emp ining about conference on leaks with jeff sessions. >> thank you so much. sunday 8:00 a.m. ari starts at 6:00. weekdays on msnbc. that does it for us for now. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to hit today. starting with president trump. answering to the report that special counsel robert mueller impaneled a grand jury in front of a friendly, friendly crowd

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